I should have been revising when I came across this: I have to admit the this particular aspect of the transsexual struggle hasn’t really crossing my radar, having never had any desire to go to said music festival.
Hey that’s awful, I’d want to go to a men-only event
I’m in two minds on it, firstly if it was the sort of event that transsexual men couldn’t go to, I’d be fairly pissed off and probably would want to try and go to see if I could pass there.
I can’t actually imagine an event where transsexual men couldn’t go to as policy, I know of plenty of situations, mainly football matches and pubs where I’m damn glad I pass, because I wouldn’t feel safe if people knew I was trans. Thinking about it walking through a less-than-salubrious area of town at night is pretty much an ‘men only area’ because women didn’t feel safe there. I used to do it when I was a woman, and despite all my friends predictions I was never once murdered.
But maybe they need a ‘womyn-born-womyn’ only space?
There argument seems to be that there are womyn-born-womyn need a place of there own because they have specific issues that they wish to discuss in a womyn-born-womyn only enviroment, I have no idea what they are but that’s mainly because I’m not a womyn-born-womyn.
I remember how nice it was as a teenager to be able to go to a gay only youth group, because it felt safer there than it did anywhere else, I also like the fact that the Doctors Mess is Doctor’s only, so maybe it’s the same for Womyn-born-womyn.
Is this the biggest injustice to transsexuals in the Mitchagen?
But really, out of all of ways that transsexuals are discriminated against, not being allowed to go to a women’s music festival is hardly top of the list is it? Shouldn’t you be campagining for the right to earn a living, have reasonable access to healthcare, being able to marry and adopt children, I’m fairly sure that the Womyn at Mitchagen are with you on that one?
I wonder if transsexual women are allowed a ‘trans only space’? I’m fairly sure that they do at various support groups: so why shouldn’t non-transsexual women have a place of there own as well?
[...] I tumbled across a this on FtM Doctor’s blog today, and have been choking on my reaction ever since. [...]
By: Sisterhood is for bitches « Aphra Behn - danger of eclectic shock on November 19, 2006
at 8:51 pm
I think it’s total crap. I wonder if people who think that the alternate spelling womyn is feminist know that it’s first recorded use was in association with this transphobic festival. They’ve also evicted genderqueer people who would otherwise fall under their limitation for protesting the policy and refusing to identify as womyn born womyn. I’m bi and get the same bias and prejudice from a different angle.
By: kelli on February 15, 2007
at 5:02 am
The sad thing is that transsexuals and feminists are really fighting a common cause. Well at least a similar cause.
By: Z on February 15, 2007
at 1:15 pm
Z, I think you’re too soft on ‘em. They’re a bunch of loonies.
I say that as a”womyn-born womyn” and a feminist.
If you read more of that website, it seems their main beef is that about 10 years ago, someone once displayed their male genitalia in a public changing room. Couldn’t they have just banned that one person?
By: Clare Wilson on February 15, 2007
at 3:49 pm
I’m glad most women don’t think like this.
I have to admit there’s a whole lot of stuff about womyn-born-womyn I don’t really understand but respect their right to do. Give birth without painrelief for instance, or have a female doctor, when the male doctor available is not only more skilled but a nicer person. I tend to put this into that catagory.
Hang on – I go swimming regularly, in a pool that doesn’t have cubicles – am I violating the space of the myn-born-myn by exposing myself. (I tend to find that wtih a large towel no one notices)?
By: Z on February 15, 2007
at 4:06 pm
Is there another Kelli posting to Z’s blog? Most odd reading and thinking “I don’t remember posting any of that…!”
By: kelli on February 15, 2007
at 7:57 pm
Ah that would explain it kelli – my instant reaction was “I didn’t know kelli was bi”. Ah well.
Clare, I’m impressed you had the stamina to wade through the site and find out what the problem was. What a bloody nonsense the whole thyng is.
Aphra.
By: Aphra Behn on February 16, 2007
at 1:47 am
Do Not Call Me Cis-Clare. You Do Not Have My Permission To Name Me.
By: Clare Wilson on February 16, 2007
at 9:45 pm
Who called you cis-Clare?
Aphra.
By: Aphra Behn on February 17, 2007
at 5:06 pm
Sorry, just a joke. Referencing this: http://uppitybiscuit.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/do-not-call-me-cisgender-you-do-not-have-my-permission-to-name-me/#comment-41
By: Clare Wilson on February 17, 2007
at 5:10 pm
Ah. I knew there was a reason why I hadn’t delved deep in that site. Fascinating that she cannot tell the difference between a “name” and a “lable” amd what a depressing set of acolytes she has. Why do people mistake shrillness and a mimetic ability to use long words with coherence, intelligence and a well formed argument?
Hey ho.
Thanks Clare,
Cis-Aphra, or what you wyll
By: Aphra Behn on February 17, 2007
at 7:16 pm
I thought ‘cis-gendered’ was a fairly witty way of saying ‘not-transgendered’.
By: Z on February 18, 2007
at 1:56 pm
Yeah but these ladies Don’t Do Humour.
By: Clare Wilson on February 18, 2007
at 9:15 pm
My guess is that the more vehement of the objectors to “cis-gender” would prefer to keep an upper hand about who gets to call who, what…
I don’t use cis-gendered, myself, because I would rather not see labeling occur at all. I am a woman of transsexual experience, yes, but I am better called by my name, Karen. If you want to know what to expect of me, take the trouble to meet me.
If a person wants a label for themselves, other than their name, fine, let me know, and I will use it as long as they wish me to do so. I insist on that for myself, and I will try my darnedest to always do so for others.
By: Karen S on May 2, 2007
at 3:08 pm
Is this the biggest injustice to transsexuals in the Mitchagen?
But really, out of all of ways that transsexuals are discriminated against, not being allowed to go to a women’s music festival is hardly top of the list is it? Shouldn’t you be campagining for the right to earn a living, have reasonable access to healthcare, being able to marry and adopt children, I’m fairly sure that the Womyn at Mitchagen are with you on that one?
This is a very good point, it’s not our biggest issue in Michigan, or anywhere else.
The really ardent folks at Mitchagen (or as we say locally Meeeetchagen) will not expend the effort on our behalf, anyway. I do not need 3/5 rights, which is what their support offers. “Yes, we’ll help you, as long as you dance to our tunes.” No, thank you.
Bah! on the helping, slapping hand.
By: Karen S on May 2, 2007
at 3:23 pm
Mnnn but sometimes you have to use a label don’t you? if you are referring to large groups of people who share a common trait, and also have common needs in respect to that trait.
Thanks for reading and thanks for posting.
By: Z on May 2, 2007
at 11:34 pm
I notice that this posting was from 2006 (its not ‘09) but I feel compelled to comment nevertheless. I feel some ambivalence about the Michigan “womyn-born…” policy and in a sick way I see their point. As a TG MTF who has chosen not to pursue SRS for both economic and family issues (two grown sons with no mom whom I do not wish to humiliate), but have been on hormones for nine years and present androgynously with the exception of large breasts, I can understand how certain “womyn-only” issues MTF trans folks never fully experience (menstration, childbirth, etc.), so perhaps certain forums are ok for CISwomen only. At the same time, it does strike me as exclusionary and hurtful; a denial of the unique feminine issues that trans people deal with, and I agree with Julia Serano’s analysis that such discrimination smacks of femme mysogyny since it is not generally similarly directed at FTM trans people. I have CISwomyn friends who have said they felt slightly insulted by their perceived trans women’s “parody” of their “sacred mystery of the feminie” and was somewhat rejected when I came out as a MTF trans, although with time my cis-friends got over it, however, I’m more angrogynous presenting so I’m perhaps not as offensive to some. I’m also a sober 12-stepper, and also have been excluded from lesbian “women’s stag” meetings but I didn’t feel the need to alienate myself from my friends by making a big deal of it. It is sad, however, that the one liberal venue one would expect to be at least accepted – if not supported – has such a nasty attitude towards us and reflects broader society’s bigotry, possibly without even realizing it.
By: Jade D. on March 29, 2009
at 5:44 pm